Comments on: Drive a white van

By: Bishop Mike Hill wants to drive a white van « Christian Selvaratnam

Bishop Mike Hill wants to drive a white van « Christian Selvaratnam — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:01:13 +0000

[...] His most recent post is challanging the assumption that a new venture needs paid workers from the beginning. [...]

By: Anthony

Anthony — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 22:08:01 +0000

“And if they are being paid to be out of the secular workplace, will they find it easy to build relationships with the unchurched?”

I truly believe this could be the case. I feel that I am called in to ministry of some sort, however feel I can be more effective if i am a “part-time Priest” ensuring that I do not loose touch of the world around me. It is not that I lack the dedication to the Faith, but because I feel I would be reaching more people in doing both.

By: Pastor.Varma

Pastor.Varma — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 07:52:59 +0000

Dear brother in Christ,
First of all I praise and thank Lord Jesus for giving an opportunity to
have beautiful fellowship with your Blessed Ministry by sending this Email.
This is pastor pravardhan varma from SOUTH-INDIA. Here people in India are
Hindus, Muslims & Buddhist they used to think that Jesus is a Man who made
big sin so that the Government in those days punishes Jesus in Cross. They
used to worship Cows, Trees, and Sun & Creations as their God. Iam so sorry to
say about my people here in India . For this we are in need of your powerful
prayers for my country people. If you are having a vision to spread Gospel
here in INDIA in these End Days, we heartily welcome you to visit India and
share gospel here for the people who are in darkness. And win souls for God
.we need your ministry Branch here in India . We are going on prayers to be
fulfilled in the name of Jesus Christ Amen. Please pray for us and for my
Ministry.
We are waiting to listen favor from you soon as God leads you.

Thanking you.
Yours Brother in Christ,
G.pravardhan varma,
Good Seed Church Ministry,
Andhra Pradesh ,
India .

By: George Gulzar

George Gulzar — Thu, 29 Mar 2007 05:29:26 +0000

It is good to know that you are working and helping people, may God Bless you and your ministry,
I am working with poor comminity need information that how can you help poor in Pakistan

By: judith murray

judith murray — Wed, 28 Mar 2007 00:28:12 +0000

Mrs. L.your situation sounds horrible! I understood the early Christians shared everything they had, and since few of us do that now [or am I wrong??] it’d be a start if church leaders kept a better eye on the willing workers before they get worn out,undermined and resentful. I just read all the comments and really can’t understand a lot of it … my question would be – what happens when church leaders, paid or unpaid, get so demoralised by the pressure to ‘do things differently’ that they can’t think straight any more? I’ve been to some brilliant talks by Bishop Mike, but some of the older [and maybe younger] saints are choking on some of the expectations they feel they can’t live up to. Pray, pray, pray …

By: mrs. L

mrs. L — Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:30:15 +0000

Somebody save me from burnout. I’ve been doing inner city ministry for almost a year now. I am required to work at it 4 days a week but end up working it 6 days a week. It is a gang infested area so often I break up fights. I am a 49 yr. old woman. I am required to live in the ministry house although I have my own home somewhere else. I am not compensated except for a little help with gasoline. Often I run out of money before the end of the month from a personal income source. Often this ministry is used as the “great example” of what others should be doing by the top of the ministry. So why am I becoming more and more impoverished? I have dropped my entire life to serve these people as they step on me to furthur their own ministry careers. The minister just got a new high dollar home. Meanwhile I am chided for eating a left over hotdog from an event. What gives? This is not a cult. It is a mainline denomination. Any comments?

By: Matt Overton

Matt Overton — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 20:14:30 +0000

I am an American. I am paid clergy. It does in fact limit some of the risks that I am willing to take in various instances. It also frees me for a great deal of ministry in terms of my time.
What is of interest to me in this stream of posts is that no one seems to be asking a further question. If a minister is freed from the so called “axe” of the congregation hanging over their heads, then are they solely freed for good actions? In other words, one might argue that while and independent leader is indeed more free to do as he/she wills, they might also be wholly freed to do whatever they wish. Is financial accountability always evil? It certainly seems evil when it is described as an axe. But, is it?
Perhaps it seems laughable, but the American is worried about too much individualism. I think in many ways that my fiduciary dependence upon my congregation gives me a nice barrier to dominating the community with my creativity or personality. It is never wholly about what I want to do. Indeed my payment is baseline form of accountability. Furthermore, my pay is often an excellent reminder for my soul that I am being supported by the tithe of the community. Therefore, I have a burden to be a good steward of that pay.
And lets not be anachronistic when it comes to Paul. Had no one fed him, housed him, listened to him, his ministry would have died. That is payment. Like it or not. He overtly challenged some community standards, but in other areas he was very circumspect about what he argued for and how he argued for it. Paul was not totally free to say, think, and do whatever he wanted. Even he knew what side his bread was buttered on, and I am not sure that was such a bad thing. Is freedome from the accountability of pay something that gets us one step closer to Godlieness, or just one step closer to being God in our communities? I think it’s a valid question. Peace.

By: David

David — Mon, 19 Feb 2007 14:14:05 +0000

Church History also reminds us that the church can be strong in a particular situation and culture, and yet still all but disappear. North Africa used to be a Christian stronghold.

And I wonder how Christian it is to see history as cyclical, in which there is never any new situation?

You know the church is in trouble, when good people start leaving.

By: Simon

Simon — Sun, 18 Feb 2007 04:01:24 +0000

Two issues emerge from Mike’s post and subsequent comments: a) the creative possibilities of unpaid pioneer leaders and b) the trend for paid leaders to administer ever larger groups of churches.

The driving factor may be finance, but both issues connect in the apparent tension that is creativity versus administrative order. David Sixtop is right to point out that church history is littered with failed movements that allowed creativity to win over order before heading into trouble. But he’s wrong to suggest that the tension is itself un-Anglican. Where I see churches growing, it’s precisely because the environment is one of ‘ordered creativity’.

I suggest that the real problem is in dwindling churches which insist that they deserve a share of some overstretched vicar’s administrative oversight because ordered decline is about all that can be hoped for.

Paul is on to something when he talks about the futility of non-strategic planning. We need courage to allow every church leader opportunity for creativity and courage to name the fact that non-viable churches simply can’t be sustained with a little bit of stipendiary support. Without that courage, the costs to church leaders won’t so much be financial, it will be paid in broken marriages and mental ill-health.

By: steve

steve — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 06:04:59 +0000

I have been really challenged by the various recent posts on clergy life (Paul Robert’s blog)/white van man blog and the like. As things stand, given the Church’s diminishing manpower and financial resources, it would seem that any newly-ordained priest faces a lifetime dominated by administration; mini-church politics (nightmare!); the prospect of spreading oneself very thinly between an increasing number of church congregations; and a very difficult family life! His or her original calling is likely to have become swamped in the process. The present model surely can’t continue to be applied in the Anglican Church. Paul’s comment about those considering strategies to cope with the future forgetting the parable of the seed (which needs to die if anything is to grow) seems entirely apt.
The Emerging/Alternative Church movement would seem to have much to commend it – albeit that it appears to thrive on the basis of relatively small, intimate groups. If I were a priest, I’m pretty sure this would be the kind of church community I’d like to lead/be part of – but initially, at least, I would need some financial security and the freedom to set up and establish (or take over) a church community without the need to provide all the other “services”. As a “follower”, I think I’d like to be part of a similar group. Over the next 10 years, I can only see more and more people opting for belonging to this type of church community – and, in all probability, such groups being assisted by the most talented and visionary leaders.
I’m incredibly naive on such matters, but maybe it’s against this backdrop that the Anglican Church (both nationally and regionally) should be starting to brainstorm bold and radical medium-/long-term strategies?